Ann Ryan on Her Father Jack Ryan and Barbie History

This transcript was generated from the episode captions and lightly edited for readability. Names and product terms may occasionally be imperfect. Quoted dollar amounts retain the wording of the interview; the currency is not always specified.

0:00Hello dolls and accessories. I'm your host Kelly and this is Barbie Talk. [music] Barbie Talk with Kelly in Pink. Until now, we've only had Barbie collectors and influencers on the show. But today is a little different. Today's guest is not a Barbie collector or influencer, but she was the very first child to play with a Barbie doll. Most Barbie fans know the names Ruth and Elliot Handler, but there's another name that often gets overlooked. Jack Ryan. Jack Ryan designed the doll that became a global icon. Just take a look at this patent from 1959 that has his name and signature on it. Without his technical creativity, Barbie may not exist today. His work helped shape not only Barbie, but many of Mattel's iconic toys during the company's golden years. Joining me today is someone who knows him more than just a toy inventor. She knows him simply as dad. Anne Ryan is the author of Dad, Barbie, and Me, a heartfelt memoir that offers a personal look at growing up with the most fascinating figure in toy history. She was also in the documentary Barbie Uncovered a Dreamhouse Divided, where she shares her family's perspective on her father's contributions, his complicated legacy, and why his role in Barbie's history deserves more recognition. Please welcome Ann. Hi Ann,

1:23welcome to Barbie Talk. Hi Kelly, I am so excited to be here today. I am so excited to have you on the show. It's an absolute honor. So there's a lot to cover. So I'm going to get straight to it. Tell us a little bit about yourself, where you're from, and how your relationship with Barbie started. That's a very long story. [laughter] I I was born in Cambridge. I grew up in Los Angeles in Bair and now I live back in Massachusetts again. But if you want to know when my relationship with Barbie started, it started with my mother because my mother is Barbie. I know it sounds a little strange, but actually Barbie was named after my mother. Okay. So, your mother is really Barbie.

2:20Well, I wouldn't say she really is Barbie, but that's where Barbie got her name. I think most people have the idea that Barbie came from Ruth Handler's daughter, Barbara. But that's not the case. No, it isn't the case at all. But it's a story that Ruth Handler told many times, especially after my father was already gone. But the real story is that when they were deciding what to name the doll, Ruth wanted to call her Babs, but the lawyers thought it wasn't a good idea to call her Babs because for some reason. And so my father said, "What about Barbie?" And that's what stuck. Look at that. And my mother was called Barbie her entire life. I have letters and other correspondents that everything says, "Dear Barbie, dear Barbie." It's important to note that both women, Barbara Handler and Barbara Ryan, their legal first names are Barbara, but my mother was always called Barbie, and Barbara Handler was never called Barbie. Did you ever hear Ruth refer to her daughter as Barbie? No. Uh, but she had a son, Kenneth. So, she said she named Ken after

3:45her son. Is that true? She did. She absolutely did. No doubt about it. That makes sense. She probably kind of got that idea and said, "Well, you know, I'll take the name from my son." Kind of makes sense. It does. So, we've already talked a little bit about Barbie, but before we do, I'd like to understand who was Jack Ryan simply as your father. How would you describe him? Well, I wouldn't say he was your usual father. He was very unconventional. He was a genius basically, but he grew up with severe dyslexia. And so he had to figure out workarounds to not being able to read because back in the day they didn't even know what dyslexia was. So throughout his entire life he always had to overcome these things. But that's sort of like the throughine of his life. He was always inventing. He was always solving problems. He was always working things out. So, right from the start, he was coming from a different place. And what are some of your oldest memories with your father? You look a lot like him. I'm going to add, by the way, you do look a lot like him. Well, thank you. Yeah. [laughter] Very He was very handsome man. I uh just looking at the cover of your book, I just wanted to say like you do look a lot like your father. A lot. I do. Especially in that photo. You know, I remember my father being very playful. In fact, I would describe him as a

5:10big kid. Even once he became an adult, he was always playing. That was just sort of part of his persona. In college and in high school, he was involved in a lot of plays and other theatrical things. Later on in life, when we moved to our big estate in Bair, he said about turning it into a castle, he built a treehouse there that was for adults, that was for dinner parties, that had a chandelier and a telephone, which was a big thing back then. We didn't have cellular phones. He had a fire engine, but he had outfitted it so that he could take guests on it and go running around town sometimes with the lights and siren going. He just loved to play. He loved to entertain. He gave over 200 parties a year up at our estate, some for as many as 1,000 people. Yeah. Wow. So, it was a lot. [laughter] It was a very unusual childhood, but he seemed like he just wanted to have fun. He was a work a work hard, play hard kind of guy. Yes. And he brought that to his work at Mattel because before he was at Mattel, he worked for Rathon in Massachusetts, which

6:35was part of the military industrial complex that designed missiles, lowaltitude defense missiles. And when he moved to Mattel, he brought a lot of what he learned at Rathon to Mattel. First of all, in terms of security, guarding against people stealing ideas, just keeping everything undercover, which really hadn't been done before in the toy industry. But he also brought a lot of play into Mattel. And one thing I remember in particular, I used to do a lot of toy testing at Mattel. And one of the toys I was brought in to test was Blaze the horse. I don't know if you know who Blaze is. I don't, but I've seen the photo. You know, he was like the right size for a child to ride on and there were springs and he was black and white and so I used to play with him on that.

7:34But there's also a picture of a lifesize blaze with Elliot Handler sitting on him and my father just sort of pointing at him like this because my father said, "Well, we don't want just the kids to test the toys. We want the adults to test the toys, too." Another thing he did was on Elliot Handler's birthday one year, he brought in this giant box and opened it up and out popped a girl. Not unlike the Jack in the Box they were developing. That's right. That's right. [laughter] So it was always something. It was a very very playful mood at Mattel because my father felt that that stimulated creativity. And you know what? I think he was right. He had something going there. He definitely was right. Now you've touched on a lot of things. Did your dad ever bring home different types of toys for you to play with first? because I think you claim to be the first child to play with Barbie. Is that true? That's exactly right. And I remember it as if it were yesterday. I remember my father bringing home a Barbie prototype with the blonde hair, the ponytail, the black and white swimsuit. And I was in my bedroom and my father brought her in. She was wrapped up in something and handed her to me. And the first thing I noticed about her was

8:59her hair. Touching her hair, it just felt like the silkiest and softest thing that I'd ever felt in my life. And then he brought a few clothes along and I immediately started putting the clothes on her and I was just mesmerized by her. But then he took her back to Mattel. I didn't get to keep her. Of course, obviously he had to take it back and do what he had to do with it. But even all the things you talked about with your dad being playful, I read in the book that your grandmother maybe didn't really allow him to play or have too many friends over. Is that true? And do you think that probably plays a role in him being, you know, a big kid? Yes, I think so. I'm not sure why that was with her, but she could be kind of stern, but my brother had an older brother, Jimmy, and Jimmy was the one who helped him when he was younger. When he couldn't read, Jimmy would read the school books to my father. My father would memorize everything that Jimmy told him, and that's how he was able to get through school. And then later, Jimmy went to work with my father at Matum. Jimmy ran the sound lab there. But when he was growing up, he and Jimmy were just terrors in the neighborhood because [laughter] [gasps] they used to do things like make dynamite in the

10:23basement of their parents' house. And sometimes they would go up outside and blow things up. I know that once they blew up a bird bath on the front lawn of the house and my grandmother came outside shrieking at them, you're going to kill us all. And but you know, they were just they were kids. They were kids being kids. So, but it seems like they were always a team is what I get the impression from your uncle and your father that they were always a team. Yes, they were very, very close. And in fact, they grew up in Yoners, New York. And my dad's first job after college was at a company called the Square Root Company which Jimmy had co-founded with another man. And my father went to work there. So he and Jimmy worked together there and then later worked together at Mattel. So they were always close. And I mean your father is a genius. There's no question there. Your uncle Jimmy seems like a smart guy too. I mean he started up that sound and recording department at Mattel if I'm not mistaken. And yes, and then he was smart enough to bring you in to do the voice of a very popular doll. Do you want to talk a little bit about that?

11:35Yes. Well, early one morning, my uncle Jimmy picked me up at home. It was on a Saturday, and drove me down to the Mattel plant and took me into the recording studio. And he put me up on a stool. And I was little, you know, I was like fiveish at that time. and he put these headsets on me that were so big and they they kept slipping off and and I kept losing my balance. I was afraid I was going to fall off the stool. But he had me repeat over and over into a microphone the original things that the Chatty Kathy pull string talking doll said. So, you know, we started with, "Hi, my name is Chatty Kathy. Please change my dress. [music] Please change my dress. I love you.

12:26I love you. And you remember saying these things in this studio? Oh, I do. You know, it's so funny. I can't remember what I did yesterday, but I can remember things decades ago that for some reason stuck with me as being important. It's great that you have these memories to everyone watching. Like you are a connection to history in the past that none of us are aware of. And I speak for the doll community when I say thank you for bringing this stuff forward. There's a lot of stuff that I've learned that I did not know. And as someone who adores the doll, it's really nice to hear some of the realities that were happening. And we will get to that, too. So, do you have a Barbie collection at all? When I was 17 years old, my parents got divorced and my mother and my younger sister Diana and I moved from the castle to another house. And at that age, I wasn't still playing with Barbies, but I had a Barbie collection. And to this day, I don't know what happened to it. But luckily, I have been gifted with some beautiful Barbies. For example, I have this one who lives in her box all the time that was gifted to me by Bill Greening and is signed to me by him. That's very sweet of

13:46Bill. That's very sweet. Yes, he was very sweet. This was at Bradley Justice Yarborough's Swell event in 2025 and I was presented with her at his event which was wonderful. Yeah. Also, this year I was at the Barbie convention in Austin, Texas and this was the doll we got who is I think incredibly beautiful. Beautiful. So, I have some very nice things. I don't have a lot of things and you know I don't think of myself as a collector but who knows the thing is is that once you get a couple and then you think oh yeah and then at convention oh my gosh there were so many amazing dolls dolls that I did not know existed and also incredible clothes I'm really interested in the handmade things like this little sweater set that was made by Brenda Moon. Can you imagine knitting something that tiny? The talent that's out there, Ann, is crazy. Like the amount of people I've interviewed who sew or do custom dolls and rework the face, re-root the hair, it's unbelievable. I know. And you know, I've always loved [snorts] fashion. And this I got at Bradley's event this year,

15:10which is a dress that he designed. And I wish I could tell you more about it, but there's some very special aspects to it. I believe the fabric he got from Japan, and I think it might have originally been at the factory KBK where a lot of the work was done. He's going to kill me if I've got this completely wrong, but anyway, I know it's a very special special outfit, but things like that I love. And here's the other thing. He also did a dress and I don't know if you could see that is made out of a fabric that has the original Barbie patent that has this on it. Yes. But on the dress. Isn't that remarkable? That's awesome. What a great way to honor your father, too. Oh, I know. Well, the first year in 2025 when I went to Bradley's event, he was honoring my father. And there were a lot of different things that he did. He had this amazing poster made that's like paper dolls. Oh my goodness. And Bradley made this. Well, his friend Solderberg made this. He also did this. And this is signed from there. Oh my goodness, these are beautiful. Is that the same

16:37fashion that this doll is wearing? Yes, exactly. It's adorable. That's amazing you have it there. Yeah. Yeah. I love this fashion. I love it. That's absolutely beautiful. Your father also contributed to a lot of other dolls. Like there was Skipper and Francancy. It wasn't just Barbie. like he kind of saw a lot of Barbie's friends through as well, right? But not Ken. My father was very much against Ken. Really? I didn't know this. Yeah. He was something that Ruth and Elliot thought would be a good idea. And for some reason, my father didn't like it at all. And he didn't really like what Ken ended up looking like. And in an interview that I have on tape from many years ago, my father says yes. And Ken was just a big zero. He said that publicly. I don't necessarily feel that way, but for some reason, he just didn't relate to Ken at all. And let's be honest, I adore Ken, but Ken is still not at a Barbie level. Like, he's not Barbie. [laughter] No. Father, he doesn't have any personality. But I know people who collect Ken and I think that's great. But he doesn't seem to embody the magic that [clears throat] Barbie has, right? He's just an accessory.

17:59You know what? That's exactly what he is, Kelly. An accessory. Yeah, I feel bad for him. I've got my vintage Ken's up here. But it's interesting that your father did not design Ken. So, do you know who did design him? That's a good question. You know what? Nobody ever asked me that. Yes. If anybody knows, leave a comment below. Please let us know. In your book, you also have a copy of the official patent that we can look at here. And it actually does have the date it was filed, which is July 24th, 1959. And would that be a patent number in the corner there? Yeah. Is that what that is? Okay. Yes, that's the patent number, the 3,000284. And then you see his name, JW Ryan, at the top. Y and then you also see it down in the lower right, John W. Ryan inventor. John W. Ryan inventor. And then there's some attorneys that signed it. Very cool. It's right there in writing. Your father invented Barbie. There's no debate. Yeah. There's no other inventor. Correct. Yes. So, I want to get into some of the Mattel memories. You did say you were in the cataloges. You did some recording as Chatty Kathy. What other memories do you have of being a Mattel? I loved visiting plant. I mean, I remember being in my father's office and being surrounded with things on the shelf. It was all

19:19panled. It was a really, really nice office and seeing everything in there. I remember sitting in the lap of his secretary at the time, Linda, and her letting me play with her typewriter. I remember visiting Charlotte Johnson's atellier in there where she was designing all of Barbie's costumes. That was incredible. As I said, ever since I was a little kid, interested in fashion. So, seeing her work on these absolutely exquisitly beautiful little tiny costumes was just remarkable to me. And I love all of the early designs that she did. They were just miniature couture. And it's remarkable, you know, when you look at the construction of those the tiny tiny double zero zippers. And that is something that is really near and dear to my heart. And what an absolute honor to have those memories. I mean, I talk about it a lot on the show. I hate to repeat myself, but the fashions are just not what they were. And like you're talking the quality, the fabrics from Japan, the zippers, the clasps, it's a quality that will just we'll never see that again. So, what a great memory for you to have. And it's not the designer's fault. It's just the way

20:40things are done. The company doesn't want to spend the money, so they do it as cheaply as possible. But originally, they were just unbelievable. Were there any toys besides Barbie that your father was really proud of? Well, of course there was Chatty Kathy. He also really loved Charm and Chatty. She was a later version of Chatty Kathy. She wore glasses. She was even on the cover of Look magazine back then. And I have a very cute publicity picture of my father holding her. And you can just tell by the way he's looking how much he loves her. She had little records that you could put inside of her instead of just having the voice mechanism inside. And so she was able to say a lot more things than Chatty Kathy. He also did a series of plush toys and of those his favorite was Larry Lion. And I have to say Larry Lion has always been my favorite of all the plush toys.

21:43He's always been very popular. And then on top of that, he also invented Hot Wheels. So that's that's a big one. That's a big one. Yeah. And you know, the interesting thing is to this day, Barbie and Hot Wheels still represent at least 50% of Mattel's income at this point, decades later, decades after my father's gone. Yes, that is true. Did your father have like a real life-siz Hot Wheel car? Uh, he had a lot of cars. He was a car collector and car tinkerer from the time he was old enough to drive. He had an old cord automobile that he reconfigured and put the exhaust pipes on the side. He invented something in the late 50s that he called the Studa bins which was a mashup of a Studebaker and a MercedesBenz. He was always trying to create new things. He had a Shelby Cobra GT500. And of course, there was the Fire Engine and some other cars that your listeners have probably never heard of, including a Fosel Vega. [laughter] So, I haven't heard I'm not a car person, but you know, combining a Mercedes with that sounds very It sounds very jack to Yes. put something together like that. So, yeah. And that particular car now

23:06lives in Jay Leno's garage. Oh, interesting. The Students. Yeah, he owns the Stud Benz. Okay. So, tell us a little bit about We're moving a little bit away from Barbie, but we talked about your Bair Castle. We're talking about these cars. Jay Leno has your father's car now. Lots of parties, lots of celebrities. What was that like growing up in Bair in a castle, having celebrities come in and out? What was this like, an? Well, it was my life. And it wasn't until later that I realized that it was as extraordinary as it actually was. There were constant parties, constant construction. We lived in an area where there were a lot of celebrities, too. For example, I remember going trick-or-treating to Sunny and Sher's house and Sher opening the door and giving us candy. That was one of the things. What was she wearing is my first question. Was she in a costume? She had a witch's costume on. [laughter] Very nice. Yes. And in 1964 when the Beatles came to the United States for the very first time, they were staying in a house down the street from us. And I wanted to go over there so badly, but there were barricades and police and everything.

24:28But somehow one of my friends managed to get in there. You know, there were always celebrities around. There was always a lot of glamour going on, always a lot of construction going on. So, there was a tremendous amount of activity pretty much 24/7. And you mentioned that a lot in the book. Obviously, it did cause your mother some frustration as I think it would cause any person, but he just seems like someone who was always trying to make something good great. And then once it was great, he wanted to make it greater. He would start a project because he was excited about something, get it to a certain place, and then lose interest and then start another project. So people would say, well, why didn't he finish that particular project? Well, it was because it didn't interest him anymore because he had already moved on to another project. It was sort of like that with wives, too. Yeah. So your father was married several times. Yes. Five times.

25:23My mother was his first wife. His second wife was Shaja Gabbor. And for your younger viewers, I guess you could say she was what the Kardashians are today. That is a great way to explain who Zia Gabbor is 100%. [laughter] So, she was my first stepmother and she was always very nice to me and she was wild. Having a celebrity as a stepmother is unusual. Well, she liked to party, too. And it kind of went handinhand with your dad liked to have parties. So, it worked for as long as it did. Yeah, it worked until it didn't. Correct. I want to talk a little bit about Ruth Handler. What do you remember about Ruth and what was your experience like with her? I was very young, so she was really just another one of the adults in the room. But I do remember that our family socialized a lot with each other. When my father was first working at Mattel, we weren't living in the castle. We were living in Westwood Village and we would get invited over to their house all the time to swim because they had a pool. So that was a big thing and they had barbecues. And then later up at the castle, they were always coming over for parties and other events. So your family did engage with the handlers outside of work. There was Oh, yeah. Lots of times. Yeah. And what was

26:46that relationship between her and your father like? Well, in the beginning it was fantastic. She was a real powerhouse. She was an amazing marketer and my father was a genius designer. So there was a tremendous synergy between the two of them. And then when things went south at Mattel and the handlers got in trouble and stopped paying my father's royalty, then things weren't so good. That's a big problem. So, yes, that would that would change your relationship really quickly. Did you engage or play with Ruth's children? Like, did you guys play with Barbie dolls together? No, because her children were about 10 years older than me. So, that's a big difference when you're a child. Yeah. Okay, that makes sense. Sorry, I didn't know the age gap. So, when you were a child, did your father talk to you about his ideas for Barbie or like maybe try to pull at you for some ideas as a child who would play with her? The question about playing with toys and talking to my father about that makes me think of how we had a lot of pets. We had cats and dogs and a pony and ducks and chickens and rabbits and birds and just about every animal that you can imagine.

28:06And my father would watch my sister and I playing with them. And he said, "You know what?" He said, "I will never be able to invent a toy that's as engaging as the pets. Not even Barbie." No, there was something about the pets, I guess, because they're actually alive and we were all excited about them all the time, especially having a lot of them. We spent a lot of time playing with our pets. And pets react, right? They react to the play. They react to you coming home. Yes. And you know what? That just made me think of something. I bet if my father were still alive today and with AI, he would invent a toy that reacted. Exactly. You know, where you had some engagement with the toy. You could say, "Well, Chatty Kathy was kind of that way because you pulled her ring and she spoke, but then she wasn't really responding to you." I think he would probably invent something that actually responded and did things. I'm sure he would and I wish he was still around to see where the toy industry has gone, technology, how he would have adapted and there's a lot of kids who can't have animals for whatever reason, allergies or, you know, affordability and so I believe that that would have been something. I agree with you. So, he never discussed any ideas with you. I guess he would just watch you and your sister and just kind of observe. Yes, it

29:29was more observing than anything else. Was there ever any moment that you may remember? I know you were young, but as you got older, is there any sort of memory you have of your father talking about what his vision for Barbie in the future was going to be? No, not that I recall. Any any other toy like whether it was Hot Wheels or any of the other inventions that he had? No. I mean, it's interesting when he was doing most of his work at Mattel, [clears throat] my sister and I were very young, so we wouldn't necessarily have had that level of discussion. So, I think that's why it was more about observation about how we were reacting to and playing with the toys than us saying, "Oh, you should make a this or you should make a that." Fair enough. I guess by the time you got older, became a teenager, your father was already out of Mattel. He wasn't there anymore, right? Yeah. Okay. Why do you think your dad's contributions have been minimized over the years?

30:26It wasn't that they've been minimized, it's that they were erased. And there was a very specific plan to do that. And a lot of it, I believe, relates to my father's lawsuit against Mattel. When they stopped paying him, he sued them for $25 million, which back then was a lot more money than it is today. And Mattel knew they had no defense. So their strategy was to wear him out, to drag the lawsuit on for as long as possible so that he would run out of money, he would run out of resources to fight it and he refused to do that, but it took an enormous toll on him and apart from the money aspect, it really broke his heart. Yeah. You said in the book and in the documentary Barbie Uncovered, uh, Dreamhouse Divided, you stated that the broken heart is something that I mean, your father felt like he was part of the Mattel family. So, I think this came as a shock. He did not expect that the royalties would stop being paid out and that they would do what they did to him. Yeah, that's right. And so, he sued. It was the only thing he could do, but it wasn't good for anyone. But he really had no choice at that point. So your dad was clearly a genius. When

31:47he was no longer working for Mattel, what did he do? I mean, did he start his own business? I mean, he was a genius. He could have done something with his knowledge and expertise. Well, when he left Mattel, he took his design group with him, set up shop up at the castle and started developing toys and products for other companies like Ideal Toys was one of the companies he worked for, Sears, and a bunch of other companies. So he continued to design and sell ideas to these other companies. Just so people understand, and I get a little bit of an understanding, too, the lawsuit, did this come because Mattel, did they choose to just stop paying your father or was it due to financial struggles that they just couldn't afford to pay your father? It's two things. First of all, they were in very bad shape financially, and it's a very complicated thing, but I explain it in the book. But also they thought, well, you know, when they made the original deal with my father to pay him a 1 and a.5% royalty on everything he designed, they had no idea how many millions of dollars. They had no idea how successful these toys were going to be. And I think that Ruth started to resent that. Definitely. And I don't think she probably liked a woman jumping out of a cake for her husband, too. But you know that's that's another conversation. That's between her

33:10and Elliot. That's right. That's right. So they were paying him millions of dollars a year. Yet Mattel was floundering for other reasons that had nothing to do with my father. And they thought, "Oh, okay. Yeah, we can pick up a few extra million here by just start cutting his royalty check." So they just kept going down, down, down. I don't know how they thought they were going to get away with it in the end, but you know, sometimes when people are under extremists, they do crazy things. Now, in the end, did your father win the case? How did that end? Yeah, it went on for about 5 years and they finally settled right before trial and I think they paid him around 10 or 11 million. It was a confidential settlement, but at that point he had spent all this time suing them, all this money. It was not a particularly productive time. So, it's what they call a pirick victory where you won, but at what cost? 100%. And it's not just the financial weight, it's the mental, it's the emotional, all the other stuff that comes with it, too. Exactly. Yeah. During his time outside of Mattel, and he, like you said, he took his design team with him working out of the castle. Was there any notable inventions that he made during that time? I don't think there were any that rose to the level of what happened at Mattel.

34:32He could invent anything, but I think the magic was gone. I think that there was a convergence of ideas and creativity and people that happened at Mattel because my father had a team and the team worked on every single thing. It wasn't just my father and it was an environment that encouraged that and that's why there are so many of those extraordinary inventions that still continue to sell at Mattel. Yeah. I mean he sold other things but there was just never that magic that existed when he was at Mattel. Right. So you did mention that you were at convention. Was that your first time by the way or have you been? No, that was my first time. Wow. And how was that experience?

35:19Oh my god, it was wild. It was overwhelming in a lot of ways. It was overwhelming for me personally because I didn't realize there were so many people that had been following my story and the book and everything else. And it was so exciting to meet so many people that were true fans. And it was incredibly gratifying. They were so lovely and so complimentary. It was such a lovely thing. And Bradley and I did a presentation and there were more people that wanted to get in to see it than the fire department would allow in the room. [laughter] I heard there was people standing at one point cuz the room just got full and they had to turn people away. Yes. And that was incredible.

36:10I'm sorry for the people that didn't get in, but yeah, that was I keep saying overwhelming, but I don't know how else to describe it. It was a very emotional thing for me because seeing how people have resonated hearing the real story finally that I worked so hard to get the details, the evidence, and everything else. So, it's no longer a he said, she said kind of story. It's here are the facts and you can't ignore the facts and the evidence. It's just there. And it has really changed the narrative. And that was what I was hoping would happen. And to see that many people in one place responding to this was incredible. I can imagine. I can imagine. So you and Bradley did a presentation. Was it on the history of your dad? Was it talking about the book for people who weren't there like maybe at Cole's notes on what was involved in that presentation?

37:13So the presentation that Bradley and I did gave a little background on my father for people who didn't know anything about him, you know, how he grew up, his schooling, what he did before Mattel, the missiles, and then it got into the Mattel years and we had a whole slide presentation and then Bradley would ask me some of the details about that and then ending with the castle and the playland there and the celebrities and yeah, so it was just sort of the whole arc of his life. How would you say people react once they learn about his work? What kind of reaction are you seeing from people? Well, the first thing is for people who really didn't know it was surprise. The second was gratitude. People keep thanking me for writing the book and setting the story straight because there's so much misinformation out there. It's kind of appalling. And it happened after my father died when Ruth really started a campaign to erase my father almost as if he didn't exist. So the true believers that really want to know everything about Barbie have been thrilled by this. And that makes me so incredibly happy because it was very important because I was really the only person who could tell this story. I mean, there are very few people still alive that were

38:38alive back in the day. So, my being able to do this has been incredibly important to me. So, I'm glad that people are reacting so positively. Yeah. And the book is fantastic and the documentary, too. It really opened my eyes. And my opinion is it kind of gets you to piece things together. The timing of Ruth's return back to Mattel when Jill was, I guess, CEO. Just the timing of that, like your father had passed and then here's this opportunity to reinvent that wheel and your father's legacy was erased, completely erased. How do you think your father would react if he would see all this this reaction to people and seeing a room full of people who want to hear his story, people getting turned away cuz there's too many people. How do you think he would respond to that? Well, he would have a lot of gratitude and I just think he'd be really thrilled.

39:28I wish we could have conjured him up some way and brought him in there that day. I mean, in some ways, maybe he was watching all of this, but ultimately what I'd like to see is to have Mattel recognize what happened with Mattel. That's in the past. The people at Mattel now had nothing to do with that. I don't have any animus towards any of them. And I'm thinking that as his story, the true story grows and grows and grows that it may become inevitable that they feel that Barbie had a mother that was Ruth, but Barbie had a father and that was my dad. And I think for them to honor him and bring him back into the fold would be good, not just for me and my family, but for Mattel as well and for all the people who love Barbie. 100%. I was going to say and people like me, people who love the doll and love the history. And there's something that I was thinking about as you said that. I know there's talks about maybe doing a second Barbie movie. I don't know what's happening there, but in the first movie, they did a little thing to celebrate Ruth, but maybe it would be nice to see them do something in the second movie. What do you think they could do to honor him since they did it for Ruth in the first movie? Well, from a practical standpoint,

40:50I'd like to see them honor him publicly, for there to be some sort of a acknowledgement, a celebration, something when you walk into Mattel that there's my father because I mean, this isn't something that he did years and years ago and then it was over. It's still going on. I think it would be a nice thing for Mattel as well. A good story. I think so too. I think so too. I agree with you. So your father clearly very brilliant man got into Yale and was dyslexic couldn't read and he still went to Yale but like many creative people he also did face a lot of personal struggles. So how do you balance celebrating his accomplishments but also acknowledging the more difficult parts of his life. If you look at the story of most famous people it was not a straight line.

41:40There were a lot of hurdles for them to get over, a lot of zigzagging and setbacks and things like that because we're all human. So, I think that what we choose to do is to think about all of the wonderful things he did. It wasn't just what he did for Mattel and Barbie and all the other toys, but in his personal life, he raised millions of dollars for charity. In addition to throwing his own parties up at the estate, he loaned the estate to a lot of charitable organization that allowed them to have events and fundraisers there in a place that was unlike anything else that you could do it at in Los Angeles. So he gave millions of dollars away to various organizations, a lot of them having to do with children and diseases. And so he did the best that he could with what he had at any given time in his life and he was an incredibly kind person and he really wanted to do good for everybody. He definitely seems that way and what a very generous thing to do.

42:55If someone said to me, hey, do you want to throw your party in this beautiful Bair Castle? That's, you know, very very generous for him to do for sure. So all these years of you hold the stories, you hold the history, what finally inspired you to write Dad Barbie and Me? Well, it had been simmering in my head for decades, literally. But the time had finally come when I needed to do this. And I was also able to collect some archival information from my family that I didn't realize had been preserved, which allowed me to give a lot more detailed account of things. you know the letters which I cite in here that took place while he was developing Barbie and an incredible amount of help from Bradley who is the foremost authority and has done more an indepth research on the whole process that was going on at Mattel than anybody has done and that was information because I was a child I wasn't at Mattel watching him do these things but Bradley dug into archives where that stuff had been recorded. So adding all of these things together allowed me to write something that

44:16I finally felt was the most complete story and it is it's written very very well. If you haven't picked up a copy of Dad Barbie and Me, you can get it on Amazon. That's where I got mine, I guess, where books are sold. You can grab this. It's a fantastic read and just a beautiful way to honor Barbie's father. Was it emotionally difficult revisiting some of these memories as you were writing the book? Oh yes, definitely it was. It was because when I was really remembering things that had happened and because I went from a baby to an adult during his lifetime and my experiences with my father changed over the years and now that I'm quite a bit older than that, I have a different perspective on my father. As a young person, sometimes your parents do things that you're like, "Oh my god, I don't want anything to do with this." Especially if you're the daughter of someone famous and you are under a microscope a lot of the time. I mean, there were times when I didn't want anybody to know who my name was or who I was or who my dad was or anything like that because I just wanted to be myself and find my own identity. But now that I'm older, I have a much better appreciation for what I actually got from my dad over the years, what I learned from my dad,

45:39and a better understanding of his humanity and what he went through in his life and the things that he was able to overcome and be able to succeed. Definitely. And I think in the book you're very open about some of your father's mental health challenges and that was something that then wasn't really something that was talked about or there was any information or education on it. So naturally your father was not getting the help that he would be getting if it was 2026. Absolutely. I mean things have changed enormously in that area. Yeah. [clears throat] What do you hope that readers take away after reading the book? Aside from the facts and the truth, is there anything else about your father that you want them to take away? From my perspective, I think he's one of the most interesting people of the 20th century just by virtue of the life he led, his whole journey and how he has affected the lives of so many children all over the world.

46:40I mean, how many children are there that never played with a Barbie, never played with Hot Wheels or any of the other toys? He had over a thousand patents. And so, somehow what he did has affected millions and millions of people. There's something in this book that you mentioned that I'm very curious about. There's a part where you say that your mother, she had a mirrored dressing room where she would keep the Barbies that you and your sister weren't supposed to see. What is that? What's that about? What dolls were you not supposed to see? No, it wasn't that we weren't supposed to see. It was we weren't supposed to know they were in there. She had a cash of fresh Barbies in boxes and fresh costumes in packages. And she wasn't just going to give us like a hundred of these all at once. So, you know, she had like a case of stuff that my dad had brought home. So, she didn't want to spoil us, so she would dole one out if we had gotten an A on a test or something like that. But the thing is, I knew they were there, and I couldn't resist helping myself from time to time. So, this is where she confession. She kept the inventory there so that way she had to tap into a doll for Christmas or a birthday, something like that.

47:59Yeah, we weren't supposed to know, but we were see. So, yes. Did your mom find out that you knew, or is that still something that is? No, I don't think she kept very careful [laughter] tabs on the inventory. Do you still have your mother? No, she passed in 2011. Okay. So, many years after your father. Yes. Yeah. Your father was very young when he passed. So, okay. So, we can talk a little bit about Barbie Uncovered, A Dreamhouse Divided. It is a documentary from 2024. I only came across it recently and it was fantastic. How did you become involved with that documentary? I became involved through a couple of things. I started a podcast, I think it was in 2022 called Dreamhouse, the real story of Jack Ryan and a lot of people listen to the podcast. So, I've had inquiries over the years about different projects as a result of people finding the podcast. Also in 2009, author Jerry Oppenheimer wrote a book called Toy Monster, the big bad world of Mattel, which was an expose on Mattel in general. And the whole first part of the book concerns the early years of Mattel, which is when my father was there. Now, at the time, he had asked me to participate in that, and

49:19I wasn't ready to do it. I declined to participate although other people did that were family members and friends and things like that and that was fine. And then Jerry contacted me a few years later and said I hear you have a podcast. Good for you. If you ever want to talk about anything, I would love to chat with you. So we started a dialogue and developed a friendship. So, the producers of Barbie Uncovered contacted Jerry and then he encouraged me to become involved with Barbie Uncovered. Got it. There was also a Netflix special, The Toys That Made Us, and that's really what opened my eyes on your dad cuz there was a lot of mention of him in that special as well. So, if anybody hasn't seen that, definitely want to watch that as well. How did it feel doing that documentary, driving back to your Bair Castle, sharing your family story on camera? How did that feel? Honestly, it was a very emotional experience for me because at that point, I was at a stage where I was ready to share exactly what happened. There's the good, the bad, the ugly, but you can't tell a true story and sugarcoat it or try to spin it a certain way, although many people do,

50:40and have it resonate the way the real true story resonates with people. So through the podcast, through Barbie Uncovered, and through the book, I've just tried to share, look, this is what really happened. And when I was talking about it, it was very emotional for me because I was really giving it my all. And after I finished filming with them, I had kind of a an emotional and physical reaction to the whole thing and I was in Los Angeles and I have a podcast episode about how I reacted after filming that. And I was not well for a couple of days because I had literally purged everything that had to do with the story. Yes. And if you're telling me that that was the first time that you were saying some of these stories in maybe a few years or in that sort of setting, you're reliving it by talking about the details. I mean, it is therapy, but yes, it's like exactly like what you're saying. It's like you're purging all this stuff that you had within you, within your soul, and now you're putting it out there to the world. And I think it took a lot of bravery, and kudos to you for doing that. And I'm sure it was difficult, but like you said,

52:00the truth has to come out. Sometimes the truth isn't always pretty and we can't sugarcoat it. So, thank you so much for being brave and strong to come out and do that. And I think your father would be super proud. Well, thank you. I hope he would be. In November, your father would have been a hundred years old. So if your father could see the conversations about his legacy today, and I think he is watching, but if he could call you and just tell you what he thinks, what do you think he'd say? As I said earlier, with respect to what I want right now, I think he would want the same things that I want for him. Recognition, honor, to correct the history. I remember when I went in to edit his Wikipedia page. It was such a mess. There were so many contributions. 99% of it was wrong.

52:50And I went in and I completely redid the whole thing. And you know, you have to substantiate everything that you put on there so that they can verify that to make sure. But somehow or other, they hadn't managed to verify much of what went on there before. But it's important to get the record straight. Not just for me, but it's just, you know, if you could tell your father just one thing right now, just you can only tell him one thing, what would you tell him? I would just say that I love him and I really appreciate him. Yeah. Yeah. That's all you got to say. That's all you got to say. What does Barbie mean to you today? Well, I think in a lot of ways she sort of symbolizes my father's story because she's the thing that he's al mostly connected with even though he did a lot of other toys and a lot of other inventions. I love Barbie and I think Barbie continues to evolve. I think that she's like the best little play pal you could have because of the way you play with her. isn't just how Barbie looks, but it's playing Barbies and how children and adults can manifest things through Barbie and work through things with Barbie and have a

54:11good time with Barbie. And there's really nothing like Barbie. There isn't. And I think it's like using your imagination. You get to be creative and that it starts at such a young age where the creativity starts to come through. Definitely. Yes. I've noticed that with my own daughter and my granddaughter and Yes. So, you've got your children, you've got grandchildren. Do they own Barbies? Do they play? Oh, yes. They're older, but yes, they had always played with Barbies. And of course, that was great just to see the next generations. Absolutely. Do any of your grandkids collect now or they kind of grown out of it? Now, I wouldn't say they're specifically Barbie collectors, but I wouldn't be surprised if at some point they decided to pick that up. I think a lot of the adult Barbie [snorts] collectors I know became much more serious when they were adults up to almost any age. There's no age limit. If you're a collector, if you enjoyed something, if it brings back a nostalgic feeling, then who are we to say that that's wrong and you're too old for something like that? I think there's no age limit when it comes to a lot of the stuff your father's invented to be honest. Right. You're never too old for Barbie. Never too old.

55:25Never too old. And how would you describe your life now? I mean, you still having big parties or is a little is it a little quieter? [laughter] No, I don't throw a lot of big parties anymore. I live on Cape Cod in Massachusetts and it's a beautiful place to live and my family comes and visits a lot and I spend a lot of time also traveling especially in the winter because I'm not real fond of the cold weather and so I have a fabulous a fabulous life and I'm very grateful for that. That's wonderful. I think you've done a great job interviewing me and you are so well prepared. It's a joy to be interviewed by somebody who really knows their stuff ahead of time. So, I thank you a lot for that. Oh, and that really means a lot to me coming from you. Um, I just wanted to make sure that I prepared in a way that is going to get your father's story out, get people to watch the documentary, get people to follow your podcast, get the book, just educate themselves. If they love Barbie, then educate on the proper history and give credit where credit's due. Well, thank you. you you've really been very thoughtful and kind. I've really loved this time we spent together. Thank you so much for taking the time to share these wonderful memories with us. It's one thing to read about your dad, Jack Ryan, in books or hear his name mentioned in

56:49documentaries, but it's another to hear his story through the eyes of his daughter that gives us a much deeper understanding about the man behind the inventions. Whether someone has collected Barbie for 50 years or just discovered her story today, I think today's conversation reminds us that history is made by people. People with incredible talents, complicated lives, and lasting legacies. If you'd like to learn more about An's story, again, please make sure to pick up her book, Dad, Barbie, and Me, and watch the documentary Barbie Uncovered, A Dreamhouse Divided, as well as her podcast called Dreamhouse: The Real Story of Jack Ryan. And thank you so much for being on Barbie Talk. It's been an absolute pleasure and like I've mentioned, your father would be absolutely so proud of you. Thank you so much, Kelly. The pleasure was all mine. And let everybody know where they can find you on social media. The best way to find me is on Facebook and Instagram as an P. Bryant. Wonderful. And your podcast can also be found on Spotify. Yes. Thank you so much, Ann.

57:49Until next time. Bye bye. [music] It's amazing how one doll can change the toy industry forever and still leave us discovering [music] new stories behind her more than six decades later. Make sure to like, subscribe, and hit that notification bell if you love all things Barbie. [music] And if you enjoyed this episode, click here to see one of my other episodes. Thanks for watching.